Talk:Roxy Lalonde
Possible names All possible names are: Reba Rena Rene Reta Reva Rhea Risa Rita Riya Roma Romy Rona Roni Rory Rosa Ross Rosy Roxy Rubi Ruby Ruie Ruth --Loverdesang 05:29, November 16, 2011 (UTC) Updated list to eliminate all jossed options. Per Ankh 16:51, January 5, 2012 (UTC) There isn't such a thing as "all possible names", really. PedanticScientist 23:03, November 21, 2011 (UTC) There aren't as many four letter R names as you think, trust me I looked up several lists cross referenced them to see if I had all of them and this is the list of names that could possibly be it unless he makes up a name or choses one that is so remote no one has heard of it before. Seeing as he has so far called people, john, jane, dave, rose, and jade. I think he will pick a widely known name, and these are all of the widely known names, and then some. Personally I'm hoping for Ruby. Loverdesang 02:27, November 22, 2011 (UTC) We don't know for sure that her name will start with an R. 14:42, November 29, 2011 (UTC) We now know her name so I crossed all the ones out except for it. Chezrush 15:58, January 16, 2012 (UTC) 'Mythological Title' Thief of Mind 00:48, November 17, 2011 (UTC) Wasn't there another character who was introduced high and never became sober until they were wrecking everyone's shit? Mom of Rage ooooooh ahhhh nah it seems more likely she'll be Void, Void seems like a crucial player class. 12:51, November 22, 2011 (UTC) I've been thinking about it and she'll probably be a hero of either Void or Heart. The other known aspects (I guess) are covered by the four pre-scratch kids and the surviving trolls, and the speculation that Jane and Jake are the heroes of Life and Hope, respectively. Likewise, she will probably be either a Rogue, Thief, or Prince(ss?) Just my thoughts. Lee 02:33, November 29, 2011 (UTC) I think theif of time, they still need a time player afterall, and I don't think they would match the bros. 11:34, January 5, 2012 (UTC) :Except Dave is coming into their session, they already have a Time player, they don't need another. All sessions have Time and Space players, if Ro?? is a Time player than Di?? would have to be a space player, there is no evidence to suggest that, there is evidence however to suggest that it has anticipated the extra players and thus isn't duplicating their roles. Also why Thief? The Light6 11:41, January 5, 2012 (UTC) : I agree that she will be rage. notice in a recent pesterlog she said "(patiently sips bev rage)" She has been confirmed to be Rogue of Void: Here 02:01, January 29, 2012 (UTC) Name Well I might've changed the page name prematurely here, and the redirect is blocking a revert, help? The Light6 01:14, November 29, 2011 (UTC) I'll get it. Ya gotta re-rename the page. Per Ankh 01:18, November 29, 2011 (UTC) : Well I had managed to get the talk page back but the main page stubbornly resisted my attempts, also the talk page was reverted back to the thing we were trying to re-rename it away from? The Light6 01:22, November 29, 2011 (UTC) : I'm trying to fix it, but it's giving me a headache. Sorry if messed anything up but maybe we should've tried rename the main page first? Per Ankh 01:24, November 29, 2011 (UTC) :: The issue is that ???? Lalonde now redirects to G??? Lalonde. Someone has to break the redirect first, before renaming the page. Memoria-Pi 01:26, November 29, 2011 (UTC) ::As far as I know trying to move the page should just swap it and the redirect however it seems to resist this and wants an admin to do it but for whatever reason will let it be done with the talk page by a non-admin. The Light6 01:27, November 29, 2011 (UTC) : You're all stupid. It pretty clearly stands for "good luck," and if you actually read the sentence instead of grasping for nonexistant straws you'd realize that having her initials there makes no sense whatsoever. - 01:28, November 29, 2011 (UTC) ::Well, hey I knew it stood for good luck and was trying to change it. Besides, we're trying to fix it now. Don't assume we're all dumb as bricks. :I Memoria-Pi 01:34, November 29, 2011 (UTC) : That was rude. We're not discussing THAT! We're discussing the page renaming, duh! Per Ankh 01:32, November 29, 2011 (UTC) And if I'm not sorely mistaken, the page was renamed based on some particularly low IQ Homestuck readers assuming that her first initial was G based on the "gl" thing, right? Either way, I fixed the redirect loop except for one link that came out a bit weird when I copied/pasted but oh well everyone should be happy and nobody needs to move the page to G??? ever again. - 01:36, November 29, 2011 (UTC) :Except you did it wrong, the page is supposed to be moved to keep the page history intact, when being blocked from renaming the page it specifically says not to do what you did. The Light6 01:40, November 29, 2011 (UTC) ::Oh you guys.:B But it seems you managed to resove it...even if it wasn't the proper way..might result in the history of the page being lost, but it's a young page, so who care. I am just deleting G??? Lalonde.BitterLime 11:46, November 29, 2011 (UTC) :: You missed this: Talk:G??? Lalonde The Light6 12:44, November 29, 2011 (UTC) Well it is confirmed her name starts with R. You can track down all the links to ???? Lalonde here: however there are heaps of pages listed because of Navbox Homestuck Characters template even though it has been changed. So once the change goes through the system most of the links there should be gone and finding stray ones should be made easy. The Light6 01:43, December 4, 2011 (UTC) :When through, cleared it up, never mind. The Light6 02:31, December 4, 2011 (UTC) From where do we know that her first initial is R anyway? Or is it just speculation? ASBusinessMagnet 12:11, December 4, 2011 (UTC) : : From today's pesterlogs. The Light6 13:10, December 4, 2011 (UTC) Title Jake was speculated to be Page of Hope. That was proven canon, and Jane was speculated as the Maid of Life using the same clues. Another fact about Jake and Jane's titles are that Jane has the highest and lowest ranked females and Jake has the same males. MAID of Time = Aradia = lowest female, Witch of LIFE = Feferi = highest female. PAGE of Breath = Tavros = lowest male, Prince of HOPE = Eridan = highest male. Moving down produces the Mage of Rage (Sollux and Gamzee), and the Rogue of Void (Equius and Nepeta). Mom has already been stated to have powers similar to a hero of void, and Bro, who is likely all about irony as Dave was, seems fitting to have a rhyming title. All in all, I think that the four titles will be = Jane, Maid of Life, Jake, Page of Hope, Mom, Rogue of Void, Bro, Mage of Rage. - You are probably correct but I think we better wait for their introduction before adding anything since it will probably confirm it. Also we would probably only need either Mom's or Bro's to be confirmed to see if the pattern doesn't suddenly change. The Light6 03:26, November 29, 2011 (UTC) Been saying similar stuff ever since Jake was introduced. Mentioned it on the guardian talk page. But yeah, don't add it onto the pages, we'll see soon enough and we have more than enough speculation up there already. :/BitterLime 11:50, November 29, 2011 (UTC) This is the same theory I came up with, but there's one discrepancy between yours and mine. The Character Select Screen is a big indicator toward the order in which the kids will be introduced (Left to Right; gutsyGumshoe, golgothasTerror, tipsyGnostalgic, timaeusTestified). Since this is likely the order, this means that Ro?? will be the Mage of Rage and Di?? will be the Rogue of Void. The former fits due to Ro??'s wizard motif (being a techwizard figuratively and literally having wizards, such as dressing her bunny for Jane up like one). The latter fits due to Di??'s breaking into his brother's museum and stealing the bunny for Lil' Sebastian (a very Rogue-type thing to do). - 11:58, January 10, 2012 (UTC) I'm pretty sure only trolls not entering the post-scratch session are being used So my guess is Ro?? is the Mage of void and Di?? would be the Thief of Heart.CrystalGriffin 23:13, January 11, 2012 (UTC) Uhm, HELP. Hello, I'm not a very *new* "editor" here (I have edited on occasion without an account, BUT every edit I do to the infobox messes it up EVEN if I'm only changing a word,) but I can't seem to actually edit something in an infobox WITHOUT messing THE TABBERS up. Anyway, the reason why I want to edit it is because of THIS line under typing style: "uses smilies with ^^ eyes" I'm planning to add "^ occasionally uses carat symbols (^ or ^^^) for emphasizing a previously typed line", because the ONLY times R??? Lalonde uses the carats for this purpose MORE than for smilies (she only uses it in a smiley for the zipped mouth TG: ^+++++++^ ), but for, as I said, emphasizing a previously typed line. Here are concrete examples: TG: * horbible TG: * whore bible TG: ^ bullseye GT: I do want to know what you think! GT: I always want to know. Because you are always smart and sassy. TG: best dude ^^^ Thanks in advance, and I apologize for my atrocious use of the English language. It's not my mother tongue. -Hoarfrost 10:16, December 18, 2011 (UTC) Lalonde is English? In light of the newest pages, I've begun to think that RL has an English accent because of her language in pesterlogs. She uses the words "maths" and "petrol" as opposed to "math" and "gas" which I believe is a UK/US thing, I've never heard the first two used in an American context. - IdleShutter :My headcanon always thought of Rose as being British so I have no objection, also we say petrol here in Australia too, though Australian English has some British English qualities and some American English qualities and it's own unique qualities, but that's really going off topic. The Light6 08:38, January 10, 2012 (UTC) :"cooking with petrol" is a sassacre quote, but yes, maths and petrol are british terms, she doesn't use british spelling though. 15:05, January 10, 2012 (UTC) :"Lalonde" is actually a typical Norman surname. The Normans are descendants of the Vikings. They then came to settle in northern France(Normandy) and eventually the British Isles during the middle ages. So Lalonde and Rose being British isn't too far of a stretch. 22:55, January 15, 2012 (UTC) Ro?? Horror Picture Show Ok I just want to clariffy. In one of the latest pages (shown here) Ro?? says "step away from the compuner" then the computer explodes. This could be a number of things. Is Ro?? a asassin? Or was it due to the Sburb copy being a hacked file? You tell me. Chezrush 23:44, January 12, 2012 (UTC) I think it's because the coding of the Client is meant to be run only AFTER the Server is up. Per Ankh 01:12, January 13, 2012 (UTC) since no one has made any comments, the shade of pink was darker and used a cat emoticon at the end implying that it was from jaspersprite.CrystalGriffin 01:52, January 13, 2012 (UTC) That is true. You have a sharp eye. Either that, or it was Jaspers himself. Per Ankh 01:58, January 13, 2012 (UTC) I compared it with Jaspersprite's text and it was not the same it looked closer to Ro??'s text color. Ah. I actually looked at both and they were the same exact color. Unless I'm missing something. :the colour of text in the program is #ff6ff2, which is roxy's colour, jaspers' is different. 20:41, January 16, 2012 (UTC) Roxy's text is as follows: Red=255 Green=111 Blue=242. Jasper's text is: Red=241 Green=65 Blue=239. After examining the text in the ~ATH file, I was able to confirm that it was indeed Roxy's typing. It is possible that it was Jaspers typing on Roxy's computer, but it is hard to tell because both of their typing quirks are used. Also, the answer to the original question can be found here. 00:04, January 17, 2012 (UTC)MM I presumed that it was a countdown. As in :3, :2, :1...boom. GG: And you claimed you were the one making my pumpkins disappear? TG: hahAHA TG: *aha TG: y :3 I'm pretty sure that Roxy uses the :3 emoticon, P.S. now that Even In Death has been used for a Roxy-centric flash, can it be listed as her songKiilek Rekaur 00:41, February 4, 2012 (UTC) : I'd just like to second the motion of associating Even in Death with Roxy. Matpmar 08:27, February 21, 2012 (UTC) "Live(s) in" field The Live(s) in section in the infobox is outdated you know. 07:59, May 2, 2012 (UTC) :Updated. The Light6 08:12, May 2, 2012 (UTC) Infobox is huge. Pumpkin Party in Sea Hitler's Water Apocalypse ♫ is causing this. Also the page source includes ''' - if this could be removed, it could be fixed without needing to truncate the song name. 15:04, June 26, 2012 (UTC) * ac guesses it is fixed * 17:49, January 7, 2015 (UTC) Possible references - The scarf Her scarf looks almost exactly same as the scarf of Gruntilda the Witch of Banjo Kazooie, a retro game. I am unsure how to find out if it's trulty meant to be reference but I'm sure some of you might make use of this corrolation. Bluebolt (talk) 13:47, August 23, 2012 (UTC) Teetotal? , and the lack of typos, basically confirms that Roxy's kicked the bottle. Interestingly at around the same time (in the story's narrative) that Rose started brewing her weird hoochy elixirs. 18:02, December 4, 2012 (UTC) Relations Section In the Relations section of the infobox, John Egbert is never listed though he is, like Calliope, a possible love interest. I can't edit it myself, but I'd like for this to be fixed. Also, she is confirmed to be Joey Claire's babysitter, so that would be good information to include. 06:26, December 17, 2016 (UTC) In addition to the relations section looking a bit sloppy, there isn't any indication that John has been abandoned as a love interest, even in taken consideration of "post-canon content", and the notion is pure speculation. As far as Calliope being a possible love interest, until it's been confirmed in canon that Calliope even has the ability to feel love and that Roxy has an explicit crush to the degree that she's revealed to be interested in John, Calliope should not be listed as a possible love interest above John, The 'unrequited' part of her love interest in Dirk and Jake are unnescessary, and are exclusive to her page so far (i.e.: Karkat is not listed as an unrequited love interest on Nepeta's page, Feferi isn't on Eridan's page, etc.) Also, listing Jane as a close friend seems a little superflous considering all the kids are close friends one way or another. 00:06, January 2, 2017 (UTC) Pronouns '''SPOILERS FOR EPILOGUE So, all of Roxy's pronouns were changed to they to reflect the gender journey Roxy goes on during the epilogue... But, by the end of Meat, probably more considered the "canon" route, he goes by he/him pronouns! Should the entire page be changed to reflect this? Does it count as a spoiler? 15:02, April 21, 2019 (UTC) I would like to personally thank whoever went through the thankless task of changing all of his pronouns. Thank you. So much. We might want to add in an addendum to explain why he/him pronouns are used (in a "Epilogue" box, maybe?) because some of the other parts don't make sense without it (see for example his sadness that Dirk is gay, which doesn't make sense to new readers percieving him as always having been male in-story.) Keep the he/him pronouns throughout the article, but make sure we don't confuse new readers! 14:17, April 22, 2019 (UTC) :Would it be wise to change pronoums if Roxy does not change them in the Candy timeline? I suggest reverting the edits but keep "him" pronoums when it refers to the Meat epilogue. Mamaopapaya (talk) 17:33, April 22, 2019 (UTC) : :I also agree with reverting back the pronouns, and use the "him" pronouns only for the Meat epilogue. Although the Meat epilogue is supposed to be more "canon" than the Candy epilogue, in the context of explaining the story in a wiki both sides should be treated equally as timelines. I think the duality of Roxy's sexuality in the two epilogues is important to understanding the message that the Epilogue is presenting as a whole, so we shouldn't shun out the other possibility of sexuality as well. Also, during Act 6 Roxy explicit refers to as a "she", so I think we should keep that pronoun for the existing part of the wiki, to not confuse readers too much. 17:54, April 22, 2019 (UTC) I don't agree with revering back the pronouns at all, to be honest. While, yes, the Candy version of Roxy doesn't change them, there are conversations had surrounding gender in the Candy route where they specifically point out their comfortableness in their body, but, I believe, not a strict adherence to womanhood? That says to me that those feelings are present, especially if the Candy route is treated as less "canon" than the other one due to basic tampering with the relevancy. I think, if nothing else, "they" should be used, because its clear that the struggles are there in both cases of the character but not presuming either she or he. Would we change Calliope's pronoun despite them never coming out as nonbinary in the Candy route either? (One more thing - the presence of "she" pronouns before Roxy comes out is in no way an indication of which pronouns to use going forward. You wouldn't refer to a real trans person using their old pronouns when discussing them before they came out, and I don't think we should do it with fictional characters either.) EDIT: If nothing else, we should have a convention in place that acknowledges the dual nature of the gender identities - defaulting to "she" implies that the Candy version is more "correct" while defaulting to "he" implies that the Meat version is (which I think the actual narrative supports). Doing "they" might offset this. 18:27, April 22, 2019 (UTC) The Epilogues are "post-canon". I understand their canonicity (via relevancy and truthfulness values) is kind of a whole metatextual Thing with them, but if there's not even a section in the page yet detailing the plot of those sections as they relate to Roxy, it seems silly to overwrite information on the Homestuck proper side with something from the Epilogues; especially when the Epilogues disagree with each other. In Homestuck proper, as in the comic itself, she goes by she; I think that should be the convention to refer to Roxy in Homestuck proper, while references to Roxy in the Epilogue should be done with the pronouns Roxy prefers by the end of the relevant route-thingy, so, either he or she. While it would, obviously, be genuinely terrible to use the wrong pronouns for a real person, Roxy is not a real person, and there isn't one definitive right answer; which pronouns are wrong varies by what is taken as canon. If the Homestuck Epilogues are taken as definitively canon for the purposes of the wiki, then that's fine I guess, but since they contradict each other, it seems weird to settle in favor of one or the other, instead of settling in favor of Homestuck proper for Homestuck proper, and then for the Epilogue you're talking about in the sections on the Epilogues? 19:51, April 22, 2019 (UTC) The writers talked on twitter about how "they" is generally the best way to refer to Roxy in a timeline-inspecific way, since it is neutral and works for any version of them. I think implementing this would be beneficial as it would reduce confusion by allowing consistency between all versions of them. Also, like 100.11.63.60 said: This information, despite being revealed in the epilogues, does reveal a fact about normal canon that was previously unknown (Roxy's gender) and has been confirmed by the writers as well, justifying the scope of the edit extending outside of the epilogue specific section on top of the increased consistency. RecursiveCollapse (talk) 04:30, April 30, 2019 (UTC) Salutations. I have just gone through pretty much every single Epilogue-relevant twitter post on V and Jennifer's accounts, and at no point did they say anything about using "they/them" pronouns for Roxy-in-general. Hell, they don't even use the same pronouns when referring to Roxy- Jennifer uses "they/them" while V uses "he/him." That is likely because, as Jenny had said, there is no right take on the pronouns. They left us to draw our own conclusions, et cetera, et cetera. Following this, I agree with this lovely person from over on the Epilogues forum thread- we should just use feminine pronouns when referring to Pre-Epilogue / "maincanon" Roxy and Candy Roxy (and Mom), then switch to masculine pronouns for Meat Roxy. It seems to me like a wonderful and actually logical compromise. So, for the love of fuck, Spark, could you please stop with this incessant wiki warring and settle down already? The Witch of Strife, Lady Franciacorta (talk) 10:26, April 30, 2019 (UTC) "could you please stop with this incessant wiki warring and settle down already?" Their committment to upholding canon and keeping the article consistent and clear in the face of so many anon edit trolls is admirable, actually. Anyway, in what universe is your proposal a compromise with anything? As if daring to acknowledge the canon fact they're trans at all is some sort of concession? Anyway since "they" applies to every single version of them it is, by definition, the most consistent and clear. Clarity and consistency of a single pronoun use > your personal agenda to obfuscate it as much as possible, involving swapping back and forth in a confusing and inconsistent way. "as Jenny had said, there is no right take on the pronouns" She literally did not say this, actually. She said either 'he' or 'they' are both valid for meat Roxy in specific: https://twitter.com/cephiedvariable/status/1120419017251020801 and never said "there is no right take" or anything else that validates using 'she' pronouns for meat Roxy. Cephied also talked about people using this canon ambiguity and the fact they don't realize they are trans until the end of candy in bad faith to push their identity to the side in a malicious way, something it might behove reading up on by some participants of this debate who are insistent on making this article unnecessarily confusing just to do so. RecursiveCollapse (talk) 05:39, May 1, 2019 (UTC) The only edits that were really trolls, I think, were the ones about how cis people shouldn't be in charge of Homestuck wikis, or whatever. Actually I take that back, that probably wasn't trolling, it was definitely vandalism though. Everything else has been moderation or just people who are sure they have the correct opinion, whichever way they're changing things. Moving onto argument: An issue with using "they" for the entire article is that it isn't particularly clear, as much as you might think it is. I think it's trivially true that, if you do not consider the Epilogues canon, the proper pronouns for Roxy are she/her, right? Her gender, in Homestuck proper, is female, and that should be respected, as much as her gender in Candy as female or feminine nonbinary or in Meat as male or masculine nonbinary should be respected. Yes, if you take the Epilogues as canon, they reevaluate their gender, in both routes. But it only makes sense to privilege that over Homestuck proper if you take the "dubiously authentic" story as definitely canonical, which, while fine as a personal position, shouldn't be something the wiki prescribes? (Of course, it shouldn't prescribe they are definitely noncanonical, either.) It's not really arbitrary or confusing to switch to he/him for the Meat version, while using she/her for the others, nor would that be obfuscating anything. If anything, using they/them for the whole article obfuscates that Roxy identifies as female throughout the comic proper? It's also non-arbitrary. It's treating them as three different instances of the character (because they are), and then using different pronouns for each (because they use different ones). The commitment to they/them is nice, except it's pretty much rooted in the belief that the two Epilogue Roxy's genders matter more than Homestuck Roxy's, or offer new information that necessarily applies to Homestuck Roxy, instead of just potentially applies. You're right that that proposal isn't really a compromise, since I don't think anybody's clamoring to use she/her to refer to Meat Roxy specifically (and, if they were, it would probably be to avoid spoilers?) so it's not brokering between two positions. This is basically just an argument between three camps of "Using she/her is categorically transphobic", "Using more than one pronoun throughout the article is confusing", and "Epilogue information shouldn't overwrite Homestuck information". The first position is silly because it's just pretending Meat is definitely canon while nothing else is. I don't agree with the second argument, for stated reasons, but it's a reasonable one. I don't particularly like the implication that the third position must be rooted in some desire to shove Roxy's transness out of the picture, though. I just don't think that anything from the Epilogues, no matter what, should override more canonical information. And that's what changing the pronouns is; overriding information. I don't think it's offensive or invalidating to use she for Homestuck's Roxy, and then swap to he for Meat's Roxy, but I do think of those as separate incarnations of the character, even if the latter is a potential continuation of the former. I think that's a pretty common opinion. Granted, it also seems to be a pretty common opinion that they/them for the whole thing would make things clearer. We clearly can't resolve this by just arguing, since I think there are some fundamental disagreements in priority, but it's better than just incessantly editing the page, yeah? (That goes for edits either way.) 07:13, May 1, 2019 (UTC) Thank you. This is pretty much everything I wanted- and have to say, but found no motivation to, due to others already doing so elsewhere. Though, I have a feeling that the three camps never will settle on a compromise, and that this will only end once one side completely gives up and abandons the wiki, whichever one it might be. Apropos of the "no right take" matter: I apologise, that was simply a misinterpretation of this tweet on my end. Either way, I suggest the following: perhaps a poll on what format the article should follow could be set up on the homepage? That way, visitors won't have to visit the forums in order to state their opinion. Granted, there is probably a way to abuse this system in order to spam one solution over the other, but it might still provide data useful to the goal of reaching a consensus. A mere wanderer, Franciacorta (talk) 11:01, May 1, 2019 (UTC) :I suggest using this forum thread which was talking about the problem a little more. There I also say the poll may not work because of its abuseability. Mamaopapaya (talk) 11:10, May 1, 2019 (UTC) Shouldn't we have the pronouns all be she/her in the majority of the page and only be they/them and he/him in the Epilogue sections? Since the epilogue is the ONLY part of the story where those aren't Roxy's pronouns. I think it's only fair to stay accurate to the character's timelines to use the proper pronouns in the proper sections this way. It's just wierd to refer to Roxy as they/them for the majority of the page, when in all of the story proper, Roxy was a she/her. Plus we have no confirmation on the exact level of canonocity of the Epilogue routes anyway.Manyfaceblake (talk) 13:20, June 16, 2019 (UTC) Would it be alright if someone makes it more clear what is meant by 'transitions' please? It's been a while since I read the epilogue so it genuinely confused me to begin with. Even just changing it to 'transitions to become male/non-binary' would be a lot clearer I just want to point out that I'm not suggesting this out of any malicious intent but just because I want to make the wiki articles clearer (and though I'm not an expert on trans/non-binary stuff (It really confuses me when you get past trans male/female to be honest) I think there's more things that you can transition to than just male/non-binary Sorry for the bother, Me 19:44, January 10, 2020 (UTC)